A father's talk with his son about infant circumcision
The following story was posted at Restoring Foreskin.org in the member-only section. The author mel gave me permission to publish his story here. He wishes to save other boys from infant circumcision so that they can grow up whole, just as they should. He does not want them to have to restore their foreskin like he has done for the past several years.
I used to be very active in the foreskin restoration forums (~11-12 years ago or so; I forget now!) when I first started out; however, as the years wore on and I gained the coverage that I wanted, I slowly drifted away as work/home life had to take precedence.
Back then my wife and I were trying to conceive our second child (first was a daughter) and we were having much trouble – it took ~1 year (and I had thought my restoration had something to do with this delay, but no… we got me “checked out”). At the time, since I was WELL AWARE of the ills of circumcision, I was relieved that our first child was a girl, as had she been a HE (back in 1993) I’m certain that we would have had him cut. Now, however, with this second child – if we were successful and if we had a boy, we would NOT do this to him.
After a few more months of “trying” we finally did conceive and, indeed, a BOY!
We knew he was a HE a few months before his delivery, so we were WELL prepared going in to make sure EVERYONE KNEW NOT TO CUT HIM (I told every nurse, doctor, etc.); we were in CA at the time and circumcision rates were lower than the national average, but, we still wanted to make sure. Anyway, when he was born we were successful in keeping the doctors at BAY and we brought home a happy, healthy intact son!
That was ~11 years ago. His birthday is in two months.
Over the course of these 11 years I never had the occasion to discuss circumcision (or intactness); it just never came up. Looking back now, I do not understand all the “fuss” about sons looking like their fathers. NEVER ONCE did he have the occasion to SEE ME. Sure we would get changed together (quickly) while on vacation and such, but we always instilled in him that THAT area was “private”, so, he (and I) would always turn away at that last moment of getting changed.
The Circumcision Talk
Anyway, here it is ~11 years after his birth and the time has come to have this talk. What brought it on was the fact that in a few weeks all the 5th graders will be having a “class” with the gym teacher to discuss “body changes.” I had (over the past 2 years or so), discussed a few things with him: Body hair, voice changes and even very recently erections (found him searching for boobs on the computer – he said a friend told him too!; when he got caught doing that, I figured it was a GOOD TIME to start ratcheting UP our “adult” discussions; apparently he has not yet had an erection – I do not recall when I first had mine and had always thought that boys have them from day one, I guess I was wrong as I have checked on line and it can happen any time from day 1 to ~12/13 years old; I was worried at first, but not any more).
Anyway, the Mrs called the school to find out what was going to be discussed at the “health class” so that I could cover these items first – turns out ERECTIONS are on their docket, so, I already have covered that, but the next two items are a bit, well, more “private” (masturbation and wet dreams – I’ll deal with this next week! YIKES! But I have an idea… I’ll use the metaphor of SNEEZING…. Everyone has a nose and everyone needs to sneeze, but sometimes you have to help your body sneeze – I hope it works!). I also called the gym teacher to find out how they deal with circ/intact (they do not at all and in the pics they show it is not obvious whether the penis is cut or not).
Add to this planned “health” discussion at school a pending overnight camping trip with boy scouts (would be his first away from us), we thought I should clue him in on the fact that boys are “different” down there (I assume at one point during a camping trip showers, etc., might take place at the same time; also, he may come upon pics at one point – who knows what boys bring on camping trips! and, well, I’d want him to know BEFORE HAND why what he sees “live” or “in pics” is different than what he has down south!). Additionally, I had to have a chat with him a few days ago regarding “abuse issues” (though I was very delicate about that – never used the term sexual abuse, just “things are private, no one should ask you to keep a secrets, etc… - though I will probably get into more detail soon) which is a requirement to join scouts.
So, there you have it, the stage is set to have a very delicate conversation with a 10 year old!
I give seminars at work all the time, so, I pretty much made my “plan” for how I was going to lay out the logic of all of this (and in the end, I think it worked out RATHER WELL!) – I downloaded a series of pictures (stay tuned/see below) and put together a quick powerpoint presentation.
When my son came home from school today, he packed up for his camping trip and I called him downstairs to my home office area.
The Circumcision Slideshow
After a brief overview of “growing up” and all, I walk him through the following (with pics):
- Dogs with normal ears and cropped ears (the term used when ears are shortened)
- Dogs with normal tails and then docked tails (the term used when tails are removed)
- Baby girl with normal ears and the with pierced ears
- Baby boy with normal skin and one with tattoos (I just stumbled upon this); crazy to think that someone would REALLY do that!
At this point we discuss the pain that would be involved with these modifications and the idea that PERHAPS the dogs/children would not have wanted this to happen, had they been given the choice
- I then show a few pics of tribal body modification (funny neck rings) to show how different cultures do different things; one pic is of a little girl ~7 or so, with some rings on her neck and another pic is of an adult female, with ~15-20 rings on her neck (truly disturbing! And we both wanted to look away!)
We then discussed those ear lobe things and lip plate things – I did this to highlight that different cultures do different things
- I then showed a few pics of out dated medical procedures; first being “barbers” (bloodletting and all as it was thought that “bad blood” made you sick) and another with medicinal leeches (but saying that some people still use leeches since they think it can be helpful)
At this point I give him a GOOD warning that we will now get into some very private stuff
- Pic (drawing) of intact infant penis (with foreskin) and I introduce the term (foreskin; which he had never heard before) and explain that it covers the tip of the penis
I then mention that sometimes, for some reason moms/dads/doctors alter this “natural state”
- I next show him a drawing that shows 3 steps of circ (normal foreskin, skin pulled forward with a line where the cut occurs and then the circed penis, with glans exposed) – again, just drawings, did not think REAL pics were appropriate!
He gets this look of horror on his face! We spend a few minutes talking about this. I had also brought down with me a VERY LONG sock so I could try and explain how the foreskin works (folding over to protect the glans, etc…; I slid the sock onto my hand and rolled it BACK over my fist), then I explained that the glans is like the tongue and is supposed to protected, etc…. I then explained that some cultures do it (this cut thing) and that some doctors think that it is better (I left it at that); but I added that his mother and I did not want to have that done to him because we just did not think it was the right thing to do.
- I then show another picture the shows the cross section of a penis (intact, cut or circumcised) showing how the skin overlaps and protects the glans.
- Finally I show him a graph that shows that circ rates are different as per area, but that (in general) ~50% of boys are and ~50% of are not… I never used the word “uncircumcised” just “natural” or “circumcised” (using UN – IMO – suggests that circumcised is the normal way to be).
We then spend a few minutes chatting it up about how this is a private matter. I explained that sometimes when dads are one way, the boys are that way, but other times, dads can be this way and the boys can be that way. At that point I assumed he was going to ask about myself. I had always been torn as to how I would answer that question if asked by anyone (my son or a doctor). I had decided earlier in the day that IF he did ask me, I would simply say “I have a foreskin” (to say I was “normal” would be a lie and to say “I was cut” would be too painful for me). Anyway, it did not come up… and probably never will.
I then went on to say that no one should ever be teased about this, whether they are one way or the other; that if he were in a room with 10 boys and all were normal but one, that few boys (at this age) would really know why that was and that this one boy should not be teased because he was cut; then, I reversed this and asked him, if he were in a room with 10 boys and he was the only one that was “normal” and they teased him, what would he think?
My Son's Reaction
The words that came out of his mouth warmed my heart and crystallized my decision 10 years ago (as I had always worried about his reaction to this decision).
“Well, I would know that they were the ones who got hurt.”
WHAT MORE COULD I ASK FOR?
We spoke for a few more minutes and then he wanted to LEAVE (he had had enough of this “private” discussion). I followed him upstairs and he goes and hugs his mom….
I asked him why he was hugging her. He said, “for not doing that to me.”
He then came over and hugged me (and did not let go until I made him).
As much as I’m so proud of him for understanding and happy that I had realized ALL of this before my son was born, I’m saddened.
My parents did not protect me.
I’m still left, 10 years later, having to wear things on my penis trying to regain something I will NEVER really regain.
Sure, I’ve got good coverage while flaccid (and some while erect), but the nerve endings I’ve lost will never come back.
I will go to my grave never really experiencing life the way nature intended.
I’ll never know what it is like to have an intact foreskin, a normal penis and a normal sex life.
I thought I was over the pain of this… but I guess I am not.
I’m not sure I ever will be …
My father never once had a talk with me, about anything.
Was it because he was embarrassed for what he had allowed?
Was it because he did not care enough about me to explain?
Was it his generation?
I’ll never know….. all I know is that I have broken this line in my lineage. My son is intact, he is well adjusted, he understands why we made that decision (to leave it to him) and, above all…
He is thankful for it.
He's camping now (in the COLD) and is growing up on me.... not sure where those 10 years went to.... and it gets me choked up (right now) to know that within the next 10 years he'll be off on his own, making his own adult decisions.... if I'm lucky, I'll be around to see him have a son and keep this new tradition alive...
- mel
- For those who would like to use the slideshow to teach their sons about the difference between an intact penis and a circumcised penis, the 2.3MB slideshow is here. Right-click the link to save the file.
- Tally's blog
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Comments
#1 Thank you for posting my story...
Thank you for the opportunity to share this with a larger audience... I hope it helps someone in a similar situation and that they get the same response from their son... i think this singular moment in our father-son relationship has forged a bond between us that nothing ever can shatter...
- mel
#2 Thanks Mel for sharing. I
Thanks Mel for sharing. I especially like your slideshow. But on the subject of erections, boys are often born with erections and get erections in the womb. Erections in fact are necessary to penile health to prevents blood stagnation. Nocturnal erections are about 4-5 times per night. Here's some indepth information for when your son is ready:
Dr. John Taylor penile and heart researcher - Sexual Function of the Dartos Muscle (loosely):
Upon erection the Dartos muscle tenses creating a one-piece solid skin tube, where any action on the penile shaft is transferred to act on the erogenous Taylor's Ridged Band and through its loop to the Frenulum, this action it transferred to act on the erogenous Frenulum, together the male's sexual nexus. No action on the shaft is wasted on these sexual structures.
Circumcision always removes all of the erogenous Taylor's Ridged Band and part to all of it's connecting Frenulum. Having this hangman's noose of the male's sexual receptors missing no longer keeps the whole of the penile Dartos muscle tense. All action on the erect penile shaft is wasted to act on the Ridged Band and Frenulum. Action must be applied directly to the Frenulum remnant, if any remains.
Circumcision cuts off 65%-85% of the male's sexual receptors (85% when the frenulum is cut or scraped off infant). This leaves 15% sexual receptors located in the glans corona where it's overpowered by the more populous pain/thermal receptors, ratio 5% to 95%. It is this case that men report "If I felt anymore sensitivity, I think I would die of a heart attack!" (Larry David) Circumcision changes the way, means, and type of sensations felt. Circumcision sexually handicaps. The dartos muscle also is longitudinal to the penis but as it approaches the glans, the dartos begins to tranverse and at the glans is tranverse. Meaning the foreskin thus has more cnstricting abilities than that the shaft skin. Furthermore, the thichness of dartos muscle can differ among men, some thicker than others. Thicker dartos shows tighter scrotums and presumeably tighter foreskins.
Intact men can also orgasm hands free by doing Kegal excerises while erect. Each Kegal enlarges the glans enough to draw back the foreskin a bit. Repeating Kegals stimulates both the foreskin and glans enough to climax.
The number of sexaul receptors of the ridged band decrease as it loops dorsal. But opposite this decrease, the sedxual receptors in the glans corcona equally increase, thereby maintaining the same amount of pleasure receptors going around the shaft. The corresponding difference in amount of sexual receptors should heighten the awareness of position. The two sensory positions should be considered stereoscopic thus creating pleasure in breadth and depth. (Breadth and depth are what is missing after circumcision according to some men who chose circumcision.
Intact men have erect penises 8mm longer tan circumcised penises. This is anaverage, whch means there can be wide variations.
Also consult Gary's "Lost List"; gloosary of the intact penis at www.circumcstitions.com/glossary.html http://research.cirp.org/ www.norm.org/frenular.pdf
#3 Thank you!
I am so grateful for this slideshow! I hope you don't mind me using it in a presentation for fellow nursing students. We have been "educated" about anatomy with books that depict circumcised penises as normal. We have had no education about the foreskin whatsoever. I happen to be giving a talk about the Genitourinary system that will be far to brief to say everything that I would like to say, but I will be presenting the normal male anatomy and resources for my fellow students to educate themselves about what we're not being taught in school! As the mother of an intact son, it is important to me that our healthcare providers understand normal male anatomy.
#4 No, Thank *you* mel!
My sons are 27 months and 3 months and both intact. I'm so glad my husband didn't have any "look alike" issues! I have been wondering how we (or he) would talk about it and you've put together such a nice presentation. I really appreciate the thoughtful logic progression (though I'm fairly sure the tattoo photo you posted was a photoshopped image for fun. I have seen the very same photo without the "Slayer" on the chest.) of talking points that talk about culture and choice. And your son's conclusion is priceless. Good job, Dad. You're raising a compassionate and thoughtful son.
#5 you are a great dad - what a
you are a great dad - what a legacy to give your son.
#6 Great Talk
That is awesome!! You handled it so well and you obviously raised a very smart young man. My son is five and he is natural as well. He does know what circumcision is. He does now that other people are and he is not. My husband's family is Jewish and so last year we had to go to a briss (UGH!! That was such an awful experience - not sure I can do it again). He asked questions then and so we gave them to him. At this point he is very happy we did not do that to him.
#7 Thank you
What a great and sensitive way of handling this subject. I remember having the talk with my son, after he got picked on in the boys bathroom at school. Tough for me, as a single mother, but I did the best I could.
Before my son was born, I had decided that I would definitely not subject my son to the "procedure". My ob-gyn was alarmed, as were nearly all members of my family. My dad, however, told my mom, "Well, I'm not cut. Has that been a problem?" My mom stopped bugging me about it. My pediatrician, who was quite elderly, also had no problem and was very thorough in explaining the care of an intact penis. I am thankful for the support of these two older and wiser gentlemen. At any rate, I recently told my son that the choice was his if he wanted to be circumcised or not. He said, "What? Are you kidding?" So, I guess he is fine with the decision I made as well.
#8 I will also talk to my daughters.
When each of my daughters is about to begin her dating life, their mother and I will explain that they can expect two kinds of penises. There are realistic photographic images in Wikimedia Commons that are devoid of pornographic intent. One kind is what Nature makes, the other kind is the result of amputative surgery. Both kinds should inspected for cleanliness before intimacy. Getting a condom on an intact number is a bit harder, but is an art that must be mastered. The extra skin can make for more fun. It really comes into its own in marital intimacy without a condom. Some women much prefer intimacy with an intact man.
Finally, I will tell them that should they ever give birth to a son, to never never cut off the tender moving bits on the end of the penis. That is the Ground Zero of my sexual feelings.
#9 Thank You
Thank you for leaving your son intact. My father was intact but had me cut at age 4 due to 'medical issues'. I have talked to him and he has apologised, that gave me some closure. Foreskin restoration is a long journey but well worth it. When I have a son in the future, I will definitely leave him intact.
#10 Thanks!
This was an awesome read, and I hope I can explain this to my son as well as you did.
#11 Thank you for sharing your story
I have learned so much about circumcision and reasons to keep boys intact over the last few weeks. I was honored to interview Marilyn Milos yesterday and after preparing for the show (geared mostly to mainstream parents) I did something I generally don't do. I usually present both sides of issues, bringing forward the benefits and risks and guiding parents to make informed decisions. This show was different, because I feel so strongly after reading the available data and stories like yours that there are simply no benefits that warrant infant circumcision.
Although I am a mom to only girls right now, I just wanted to say thanks. It has been stories like yours that brought this to my attention. And now, in addition to telling the truth about the harm of circumcision, I can also protect my own future sons.
Your story literally brought tears to my eyes.
Thanks too for the images- I'll save these to explain to my daughters when they are older.
#12 Thank you
I am saving this so that I can use this to talk with my son in a few years. This brought tears to my eyes. Thank you so much for sharing.
#13 Bravo
It takes a courageous man to recognize the harm done to him on his organ of pleasure and procreation and to protect his son from the same wounding. Your ability to explain your decision to your son is commendable!
Before my grandson started kindergarten, I explained to him that children could be very cruel to one another. I was called "four eyes" because I wore glasses, but I couldn't take my glasses off to avoid teasing because I wouldn't be able to see. I told him that some men told me they had been teased because they were intact when most of the boys in their school were circumcised. I said, "If anyone ever teases you, it's because they don't understand normal anatomy or because they might wish they were intact, too, but can't admit it." Matthew replied, "Don't worry, Nana, I won't tease them back; they've been hurt enough already." This is not unlike the comment your son made. Children usually understand. Another 5-year-old, when he learned about circumcision, said to his mother, "I'm glad you didn't let anyone cut that part off my penis, that's the part that tickles the best!" He knew nothing about the ridged band, with its 20,000 to 100,000 nerve endings, which encircles the opening of the foreskin, but he realized what those nerve endings do. He knew they are the most sensitive part of the penis. Out of the mouths of babes.
Thanks for your brilliant slide show! I will share it with others.
#14 Thank you!!!
As a mother, a doula, a sex educator and a human being, thank you for keeping your son intact, and for sharing your story. Your candidness will help other families, especially fathers, navigate these waters. Many blessings!
#15 Wow. Very powerful, and a
Wow. Very powerful, and a great read. Thanks for sharing.
#16 My older brother was
My older brother was circumcised (not as an infant mind you...he was 2 or 3 I believe and had a few foreskin disorders that did not go away with steroid cream or other treatments). Since it was necessary he does not feel bad about it, but he resents letting his ex wife have their now 10 year old son cut for selfish reasons (she prefers the circumcised ones and uses the ignorant hygiene argument). If a man preferred women with smaller breasts I don`t think they`d do surgery on infant girls to prevent breast growth so why is it ok to continue this archaic practice?
#17 I am a 30 m here who is
I am a 30 m here who is circumcised... I want to talk to a daddy....
dr_Relus@yahoo.com
that has done it to their son...
#18 Check out a forum
I suggest that you check out the Foreskin Restoration / Intactivism Network forum. Many circumcised men have posted on that forum about discussions they have had with their parents. The insight you seek may be available there. If you are looking for a father who circumcised, a Google search would be your best bet to find a blog of a circumcising father.
I wish you luck in your search.
#19 Tears of happiness!
The part where your son hugged his mother made me cry. I hope one day my son hugs me for keeping him intact. I fought everyone for him to be natural and all of that screaming and anxiety would never matter when the day comes that he can say he is thankful. You had a great talk with your son and I will remember your ideas to discuss this when times comes for my son to have this too. Great job!
#20 Thank you - The Pic of the Ear Piercing made me cry - I did it!
The whole article brought tears to my eyes. But, when I kept reading and scrolling then got to the picture of the pierced ears... I wanted to vomit. I did it o my daughter. I hate myself for it. I am now hoping to spread the word.
#21 Thank you
Thank you so much for sharing this touching story. I will save this to show to any sons I may have in the future (who will be left intact). How lovely to see a thoughtful understanding father raising a thoughtful understanding son. An excellent job!
#22 What a wonderful, final outcome!
Mel, you deserve a large feather in your cap. Your tale had me gripped from the beginning to its triumphant end. My heart was warmed and my emotions turned to tears. You are a Dad in a million!
I had to be circumcised as an adult necessity following paraphimosis; but that's only relevant because it made me think twice about 'restoring' - and decide against it. Why? Because I had already experienced the immeasurable benefits of owning a natural foreskin. Trying to gain back something of what I had lost and once knew, without its myriad fine-touch receptors in place, was - in my mind - tantamount to stroking the back of my hand compared with stroking my palm. That in no way makes restoration any the less worthwhile for those circumcised at birth or in boyhood who will never know the experience of a natural penis. It just explains why I chose not to try.
Your son will remember his part in the story of his young life... and forever be thankful, I'm very sure. I join everyone in applauding your selfless and inspiring efforts on his behalf.
Christopher
#23 thank you so much
I am a 22 y/o male who has the miraculous opportunity to have a very beautiful wife and my pride and joy a 4 1/2 y/o step son I've been so frightened because he is intact and I am cut I've been doing a ton of research on this learning the ins and out of how to deal with cleaning habits so on and so forth and also freaking out knowing that I will need to have this talk with him one day... I've also be extremely careful to be sure he doesn't sneak a peek at mine (public bathroom situations ) because I know he will have questions as to why my tee tee looks different than his.
#24 Glad to hear your son is intact
The nice thing about being intact is that very little maintenance is needed. An infant or toddler only needs to have the outside wiped like a finger. When the foreskin finally starts retracting, which can happen anytime between 3 and 15 years of age, he needs only retract and rinse under the foreskin with water. Never use soap because soap will dry out and irritate the sensitive mucous membranes under the foreskin.
Children are mirrors of the parents. That is, any fears you have will likely be reflected by your children. Intact is different than circumcised. But it is not that different. To him, his penis is normal. It is what he has and what he is used to. He will not be concerned about the status of his penis unless you are and you make it an issue.
The correct anatomical name for the penis is "penis." To use a euphemism like "tee tee" instead of the correct anatomical name teaches that the penis is taboo. Children often learn that their sex organs are shameful. Teaching the accurate and scientific name for the penis and its various parts teaches the boy about his anatomy. That leads to learning respect for his body. If he asks, your son has a foreskin that covers his glans. You do not have a foreskin because it was removed through circumcision. Tell him the truth using anatomically correct names. He may surprise you with his understanding.